Thank you everyone for helping me address the Beaners issues earlier today.
I decided to remove all the posts because I felt the comments became very negative, got out of hand and were unnecessarily hurting Beaners business. They might have acted stupidly but they still don’t deserve all that negativity.
I also did some research and found out that the lawyer has just graduated from law school last year and it would suck hurting her reputation with her clients.
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Interesting….nice that you took the high road.
Good decision.
Bad decision.
This is just my personal opinion…but..
if I were to remove all the previous posts on this issue, I wouldn’t start THIS one that I’m posting in right now. This just creates another place for those who had seen the other 2 posts to start commenting on their business again.
Maybe it’d be better to remove ALL posts regarding the issue? Including this one..and forget anything happened? At least members who missed out on the blog won’t be wondering what happened by reading this one right now.
Since you decided to move on from the issue, it just makes sense to remove all discussion of the business mentioned altogether…
Gotta agree with Kaimui. I didn’t read the original blog, but now I’m curious. Never heard of the company, nor is there any near me so I would never go there anyway, but still – curiosity.
I didn’t see what happened, when I last checked it wasn’t out of control, sad to see it went that way.
Good for you taking the high road. Forgive, forget, move on.
The whole situation is sad, threatening legal action for people’s comments?? What happened to free speech? People have every right to express their opinions…good for you for taking the high road. I know that I will never support their business and I will make sure to tell everyone I know not to as well.
Beaners won! Yay for bullying and intimidation! Up with veiled threats and faux legalese!
You caved. You lose. You wimp.
goodness, i was going to comment that the so-called lawyer sounded more like an inexperienced paralegal. now i know why.
@Greg: No need for ad hominem attacks, especially given what’s happened…
Good for you by deleting it all when it became nasty…..however I wouldn’t say that the company won, I know I now would never go there just because of involving a lawyer over a persons comment on a forum….to me that’s overkill. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I have to wonder why that one comment ruffled their feathers so bad……I think they may lose more business over that then anything, I hadn’t even heard of the company before this………
I don’t think there’s any good legal reason why the record shouldn’t show that there was a comment made in a forum thread that Beaners employs unlicensed hairdressers, Beaners quite logically sought to correct that falsehood, then overreacted by asking (through a lawyer) that the comment and discussion thread be deleted. Then, when the forum owner posted Beaners’ lawyers’ next over-reaching letter, which demanded that even the discussion of the discussion be removed, SmartCanucks’ management acquiesced to Beaners’ (at best) quasi-legal pressure and removed all traces of the discussion.
That is caving. That is losing. That is wimping out.
That is self-censoring to the point of giving away rights of free speech just because some paralegal writes a letter asking you to.
It’s bad enough that some firms are already using poorly-crafted, lobbyist-fueled legislation to chip away at our rights of free speech, without handing them victories on a platter just because they get all indignant about a *forum discussion*.
Canada doesn’t have “Freedom of Speech” – only the USA does. Most countries in the “Free” world do not have freedom of speech either. I think the USA is the only country in the world who does have Freedom of Speech.
We have restrictions/limits on what may be considered freedom of expression. This not only applies to resident Canadians but also to guests who enter our country. i.e., Ann Coulter’s recent visit to Canada and how she was almost arrested for violating our expression laws.
It’s all in section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Commission:
http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/proactive_initiatives/hoi_hsi/qa_qr/toc_tdm-en.asp
Greg, I am going to suggest to you that you brush up on Canadian Laws on freedom of expression and defamation. See above URL
Keep up the amazing job of running this website, Boo.
As a christian I have to tell you, that is what Jesus would have done. you are the better person.
It really shouldn’t matter who the lawyer is – they get to choose their clients after all.
The negative comments wouldn’t have happened if this Beaners’ business hadn’t had any problems in the first place though. People have the right to know. Deleting the original offending comment was a good choice, but deleting everyone else’s opinions along with it is kind of silly. Even with that said, the original comment really was just a show of dissatisfaction. For their business to go all out and hire a lawyer is very fishy.
@Theresa – Wtf? If Jesus would’ve deleted bad comments about Beaners then I’m guessing he would’ve been fair and deleted bad comments about other businesses also? That has absolutely nothing to do with goodness. Especially sharing good and bad experiences when needed are beneficial to everyone.
LOL @ WWJD
hahahahhahahahhaha
see what i meant by my comment above? this discussion is going to go downhill again…
if you decided to remove parts of it, might as well delete everything
BUT if you’re going to be transparent about the whole issue, then maybe it’s better to post everything up again and let people decide on how they’re going to look at the company involved….
leaving a little trail like this post is only going to start up the fire again and it won’t do Smartcanucks OR the business involved any good..
just my 2 cents
Boo, I hope you’ve kept a record of when posts were made, when the letters were sent, etc. Keep a record of absolutely everything just in case they decide to take legal action against you.
glad i have no idea what any of this is about!
I agree – I think you should just take all of it down – leaving just this post up will cause more trouble for yourself.
Let me rephrase that – not trouble, but it will just stir up more shit and feed the fire as kaimui22 previously mentioned.
I agree with “kaimui22 – post 19″…
Thanks for updated us your decision but REMOVE this thread as well. or disable commenting before everything starts over again.
Regarding the fact Canada doesnt have freedom of speech, I suppose it’s not the same here as the US and maybe the same term isn’t used and the definitioon may be slightly different but I think we have a similar right and if not then Bloggers, consumer reviews,hell anyone with an opinion , a computer and a bone to pick beware because the law is out to get you…..not likely though unless companies have hired guns scouring the internet for negative comments made on obscure websites here and there. Perhaps the best way to avoid it would be to state it as “in my opinion” as opposed to insinuating it as fact.Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if I said in my opinion the hairsylists are not licensed that would be my right as opposed to saying flat out they are not licensed which I have no eveidence…..but that’s just me.
Either way Boo has rovided us all with a great website that he is hardly getting rich off of so I think any negative comments directed his way are unneccessary although in keeping with the topic I suppose the within everyones right……right!
As detrimental as it may be to the original poster of the original review (which was well written I might add) will you be removing that whole thread as well? Why give the company in question anymore recognition on this site good bad or otherwise if they are willing to drag lawyers into a ‘situation’ over a response to that thread (10 word sentence) by a single person who made a lone post. Forgive and forget about them. Purge their name (maybe even ban? like other site names?) from SC and then there will be no worry about further legal actions.
I will never deal with Beaners … Free speech wins!
You didn’t take the high road, you got scared. Sad, really. Makes me lose respect for a blog I otherwise enjoy.
I’m sorry to hear that you had no other choice… Beaners really lost on this one. Regardless of whether that statement was false or not, many readers here are convinced that they do not want to do business with someone so threatened by a harmless remark (which apparently is false. If so, prove it?)
Hmm I’m confused as to why you removed it for Beaners and not for American Romance?
I have to say I’m losing respect for this site too…
Am I ever glad I missed this but at least this time I wasn’t involved.: )
To those claiming I removed it because I got “scared” I want to point out that I have kept legal threats from much larger companies on here without removing them and they are still published:
http://smartcanucks.ca/walmart-canada-inc-is-threating-me-help-what-should-i-do/
http://smartcanucks.ca/i-got-an-email-from-shoppers-drug-marts-lawyers-today-what-should-i-do/
So this definitely has nothing to do with it. I share any legal threats I get on here and I don’t see any reason why I can’t. In fact I will add a statement to my terms of service saying that any legal threats will be published on the website.
So why did I remove the Beaners one? Well if you read the lawyer’s second email it was very polite, it was not threatening and she seemed kind of shocked by the fact that it was published. I honestly felt like it was getting too negative and hurting a business which although I totally agree was stupid for threatening over a review, might still have not anticipated things would go that far.
I don’t think what I did by removing the posts is absolutely right but… I really don’t know.
yo boo
just make this post private, as in no comments are allowed
Doug, you’re an idiot. You, and others, have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with your “freedom of speech”. As its been explained here over and over and it still isn’t helping let me try another way.
Lets say Doug I have a grudge against you and I want to get you. Lets say I have a website with a lot of views, and I write an article saying “Doug is a paedophile that should not be around children. I know that sick pervert Doug has done terrible things”. STILL want to talk about freedom of speech Doug? What about after your employer, potential employers, friends and family have seen that? Pretty sure you wouldn’t like it, but according to you, I have “freedom of speech”.
You cannot libel, slander or otherwise defame people Doug or you will find yourself sued, here, or in the good ole “Freedom of speech” USA. But since they probably won’t find “doug”, they’ll sue the owner of the website hosting the comments (though they’ll try and og after you by getting a court order for the IP Address, which has been done often in Canada). And they will win, as others in Canada have.
DOug, you and the other “armchair lawyers” here might want to spend a few minutes to try and understand what your charter right to freedom of expression means, and what it doesn’t.
Boo putting this back up AGAIN, and allowing defaming comments AGAIN makes him look like an idiot. It probably won’t be little SK Beeners franchisee, but someday it will be the wrong company and he’ll be spending the big bucks in court
i just think any excuse people have to spread negativity around they jump on it. This site is intended for deals, coupons etc…why cant it just be that and not all the other nonsense that people insist on venting over. I am venting over the venters and i do realize this but i am tired of reading all the garbage about personal experiences when i know for a fact that people tend to only see things from their point of view which is not always right. People over-exaggerate and under appreciate how these big businesses have become successful. If you have a bad experience then take it up with the manager, and give them the option to fix the situation and if they are unable to then keep going higher up till its resolved. I dnt belive that bad mouthing companies solves anything, except maybe giving the ventor a moment of relief from a situation that they very well may have caused intentionally.
in the end Boo is the one that the lawyer would be going after, why should Boo take the heat. If the business is willing to throw out threats to their customers/potential customers then all the power to them they are driving away business without the comment even having to have been made. I agree with everyone that says you should just delete ANYTHING having to do with this whole thing, out of sight out of mind, dont give them ANY publicity good or bad they clearly dont deserve it as they ideally cant handle the concept that some people are just not going to like their business, oh well it happens they need to get over it. You run a great site Boo and I love it, keep it up!
It’s okay, those who read the previous posts know… so even if it’s deleted, it is not forgotten! I think you did what you felt was right, and I respect that.
Good for you, Boo, I think you made the right (and tough) decision. Also agree with including the clause about the legal threats being published. You don’t have to include the clause, since letters you receive are your property and decision to publish, but it may help keeping situations from escalating.
Hmmmmmm.
This mysterious post has me curious. I hope the controversy wasn’t over the fact that “Beaner” is also a racial slur against Mexican people….
Will, no… they were threatening to sue me over a negative review of Beaners posted on the forum.
We now live in a world where Freedom of Speach does not exist.
Defamation of character, political correctness, negative reviews…even if they are true, everyone is supposed to keep their mouth shut, smile and act as though the world is perfect. How can something be fixed if no one is allowed to talk about the problem.
Tough decision Boo. Sorry you had to deal with all that. I want to echo what others have said though – if you truly feel that deleting the post is the best option you should probably delete this thread too. I didn’t see any of the original posts. But a quick Google search “smartcanucks beaners” brought up the original posting. All I had to do was click on “Cached” to find out what all the controversy was about. A good reminder to us all that everything we put out on the Internet is there for good…
@Reminder: The cached version will stay up until Google next updates their index, which I believe happens every few weeks. But there’s nothing Boo can do about that, and I’m sure the company involved and their lawyer will understand that.
Same thing as Kaimui…every time you post a comment regarding the issue, you’re going to get comments back, most negative as that’s how people are these days. If you chose to delete the other posts, then delete everything and pretend it never happened otherwise you’re putting yourself in a vicious circle that will never end.
Boo, can I sue you too for that false statement on that ps3 deal that your posted on april 1? 😛
just kidding! but this is a public forum. Users are expected to post deals from companies and the risks that are associated with that. (their experience, not honoring the deal, etc…)
yeah!!! ha ha ha that PS3 post got me too
well yeah, it was april fools day. i wish it was real one though 🙂
@Boo: Reading your explanation, I can understand why you’d remove details. I still think it’s entirely fair to Beaners and your blog’s readers to keep a record of the “he said, she said” that went on with Beaners on the forum. Maybe not in gory detail, but it’s still something that happened, and I’d say it’s an episode that deserves to be recorded for posterity. I’m pleased enough that you’ve kept this thread: it’s a discussion of the discussion of the letter received after the letter asking to remove the discussion, so that’s probably removed enough from the original letter itself not to be any sort of legal problem.
@Smart A Canuck: Section 13 deals with hate speech. Nothing said here at any point has been hate speech. Not even anything Ann Coulter has ever said or written is hate speech under Canadian law. Sure, we don’t have a First Amendment -— but we do have nearly unrestricted freedom of speech. It’s chickenshittery of the second highest order to think that a posted opinion of Beaners could be considered hate speech.
@those who recommend taking it all down and pretending it never happened: It’s chickenshittery of the highest order to recommend taking it all down and pretending it never happened. You’re clearly the same sort of people who in the 1940s heard about Dachau or Auschwitz but pretended it wasn’t happening, just because it was an intrusive, uncomfortable truth. Sometimes the opportunity to do the right thing turns up in a place you didn’t expect, and the right thing to do is uncomfortable.
And yeah, I’m waiting for my $199 PS3, too…
So you’ve taken down the posts but you’re still making snarky comments about Beaners, who had every right to take offense, and their lawyer who was hired to help them get fair treatment? Well done. I guess. I think you should’ve removed the post they complained about when they complained and not bothered mentioning it here because that just made it worse and keep cropping up.
I love Greg comparing taking down the posts with ignoring Auschwitz. Way to go, comparing some mildly offensive blog comment to genocide, idiot.
Mi…..YOU ARE A MORON!!!!!!!!!!!! I was being facetious. Time to move out of your mommies basement and GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Jodie: I wasn’t comparing taking down posts with ignoring Auschwitz. I was comparing *wanting to* take down posts with ignoring Auschwitz. Genocide, stifling of free discussion: both fascist; neither should be tolerated.
Neither should have people saying, “Why don’t you just pretend it never happened?”
@Boo: I don’t take offense to Jodie calling me names, so you can leave that in there. Or should I maybe get a letter from a lawyer that says I’m not an idiot, and insist that this entire thread be taken down? I’m sure there will be some ostriches who would happily advise you to just comply, and pretend this whole sordid name-calling incident never happened.
This thread will fizzle out in a day or two (I think it’s on its last legs already), we’ll all go back to searching for great Canadian deals, and everything will be fine. Beaners will still be heavy-handed jerks with lawyers; a bunch of people will still be afraid to say so for fear of unpleasantness; and I’ll still be an idiot who believes free speech is worth the unpleasantness.
So what is beaners and why do they suck?
Initially I thought it was possibly a mexican restaurant with a very un-PC name… Google says it’s a place for haircuts.
Now I’m wondering what it is that’s so wrong with this place that whole threads had to be deleted and have their noob lawyers(just out of school and scared to lose clients my ass) flexed their letter writing muscles.
Burying the truth solves nothing…
Ever heard of the Streisand effect? Yeah, trying to supress this is just going to make it worse, and more people will find out whatever it is that you’re trying to hide.
I’m kicking myself for going out Friday night and missing all this. Would love to know what happened!!
Boo said “they were threatening to sue me over a negative review of Beaners posted on the forum”
Um, Boo, are you intentionally lying or just dumb? They did not want a negative review taken down, they wanted a post, by someone who signed up just to make it, that made a serious allegation about their business operation with no proof provided and presumably false. It appeared the only purpose of the post was to try and harm their business. Your own credibility is being shot to hell as you keep this up Boo.
It wasn’t a “negative review” that said this company sucks and I’m never going there again. It made very specific allegations that the company employed unlicensed workers and was therefore either breaking the law or professional codes. You can post negative reviews all you want, but you cannot make untrue allegations, just like the company can’t make untrue claims about how their service will cure cancer. This has got nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with deliberately lying. I wish people would just understand that the Internet isn’t some magical place where everyone can do whatever they want with no consequences, and it’s no different from placing an ad in a newspaper or shouting it on the streets.
At the end of the day the rest of us can shut off our computers and go about our business… Boo would be the one left to deal with this mess, so Boo you did the right thing in terms of your own interests. Totally not even worth it.
It wasn’t a review at all, there was no claim of ever being a customer there. It purported to have very “inside information”, which would lead one to believe it was a disgruntled ex employee, or a competitor.
Its like a huge number of people who post here (including shockingly Boo) don’t live in the real world. If someone was trying to undermine your business, your livelihood, probably representing almost your entire net worth, damn right you’d have a lawyer on the case asap.
I found the original review to be incredibly fair, in spite of it being a criticism. She gave them top points in some areas, and low in others. That’s actually more impartial than most forum reviews.
As for the Beaners owner, I’m pretty sure her “lawyer” is a personal friend/relative who offered to help her out but that there was no actual retainer or hiring involved. Are we expected to believe the pwner would have paid a few hundred dollars to get a soon-to-be-forgotten review removed?
chips,
Are you intentionally lying or just dumb? You can read the original review in the Google cache. If you had bothered to do so, you would see that the reviewer did indeed claim to be a customer there, and made no mention of having “inside” information. You are skewing the facts.
You people aren’t looking at the right post. The post the lawyer wanted removed was a reply in the thread, by someone who signed up just to make it. The original review wasn’t mentioned by the lawyer.
“Are we expected to believe the pwner would have paid a few hundred dollars to get a soon-to-be-forgotten review removed?”
Of course. Its a drop in the bucket. If that post someday would have dissuaded ONE person from becoming a customer it was worth the cost. Companies and individuals have spent $10s of thousands pursuing defamation cases
I was mistaken chips, and see now that you’re right.
OMG, seriously take this down. ALL of you arm chair lawyers, as some of you call others, including MissLeesha (who is also misinformed)… We do have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is almost identical as the U.S., only it’s called something different. Educate yourself on section 2 MissLeesha. And for the all the arguments that either we do have the freedom or we don’t…some of you are correct in that it really DEPENDS on the context in which it was used, to whom it was said, and so on. So there IS no black and white when it comes to this subject.
Boo…I thought this site was about “Smart Canucks” looking for deals, coupons, hot items, etc. You should take this ENTIRE subject off of your site as this is simply perpetuating the issue. Let’s get back to what Smart Canucks was all about in the first place. Otherwise, some of us are simply going to go bargainmoose, or redflagdeals. Your site rocks…keep it that way!!
Pamela
and yes I AM a lawyer, thank you.
OMG, seriously take this down. ALL of you arm chair lawyers, as some of you call others, including MissLeesha (who is also misinformed)… We do have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is almost identical as the U.S., only it’s called something different. Educate yourself on section 2 MissLeesha. And for the all the arguments that either we do have the freedom or we don’t…some of you are correct in that it really DEPENDS on the context in which it was used, to whom it was said, and so on. So there IS no black and white when it comes to this subject.
Boo…I thought this site was about “Smart Canucks” looking for deals, coupons, hot items, etc. You should take this ENTIRE subject off of your site as this is simply perpetuating the issue. Let’s get back to what Smart Canucks was all about in the first place. Otherwise, some of us are simply going to go bargainmoose, or redflagdeals. Your site rocks…keep it that way!!
and yes I AM a lawyer, thank you.
Rotflmao, are you Denise or Pamela “the lawyer” lmao. You might be Pamela or Denise but you clearly aren’t a lawyer.
Missleesha #35 trying to explain simply what is happenning here was one of the better responses.
It’s good to know that if you display TERMS OF SERVICE that you actually follow through with what you post. It’s there to help protect everyone involved.
And I’m with Chips on this one. Smarten up boo.Be a good admin and take a post down without public opinion. If something looks questionable, remove it. These comments should be screened first before posting.
For example this post:
Everybody’s doing it
Picking their nose and chewing it
They think it’s candy
But it’s not
been taking my little guy there and love the service so there…..nuff said!