So Shoppers Drug Mart today in London Ontario cut hours, and added a delivery fee of $5 for prescriptions, and $10 for non prescription items. Why? Because they are throwing a hissy fit over Ontarios Health Minister announcement last week to cut costs of generic prescription drug costs at least half. Making it more affordable for all walks of life in Ontario to have access to medications. This means less cash in the pockets of Shoppers Drug Mart therefore the huge panic. Up until this announcement pharamcies were paid “cash bonuses” and “perks” for dispensing generic drugs and Government officials have decided to nix this.
So basically Shopper’s way of fighting back was to start the first cut backs and extra fees in the Health Ministers Deb Matthews hometown of London. Immature in my books but this is nothing new of Shoppers Drug Mart.
What are your feelings on this issue? Do you think Shopper’s is in the wrong or right? Do you think they needed to act so quickly? No Shopper’s Drug Mart employees were available for comment for television interviews tonight. (Guess they were all too busy?)
I did however like Health Minister Deb Matthews comment that Shoppers Drug Mart needs to fight this with the government, not their customers.
Heres some news articles for further information:
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/792625–shoppers-drug-mart-threatens-layoffs-closings
Look forward to hearing your comments!
They are in the right here…they have to recoup their costs somewhere…and at least if they are adding extra charges it wont ruin small pharmacy businesses when they are forced to start charging extra as well or close shop.
It may not affect shoppers THAT much since I doubt they rely on the pharmacy to bring in 90% of their revenue, but for smaller pharmacies that do rely on the pharmacy for the majority of their revenue its going to be tough and a lot will probably have to close.
Visit http://www.stopcuts.ca/ for the truth on how badly this will affect the businesses.
Those “perks” and “bonuses” do go towards bettering patient care. It keeps the places open longer hours with more staff that are able to help patients, and it allows them to provide extra care like free deliveries,compliance packages, splitting pills, talking one on one with customers, faxing prescriptions for refills, calling doctors for the patients etc…With these cuts the pharmacies will be so understaffed that patients will no longer get one on one care and there will be extra charges charged to the patient for the extras that are currently covered for free with those “perks” and “bonuses”.
I could go on but I don’t want to bore people and make them not read…
Shop local….Maybe the little independants will have a chance to survive again!
To be honest i’ve never had or been offered “one on one” care. Even when I had to do blood sugar testing I went to see a specialist who explained it all to me, not a pharmacist. I imagine that the big guys do get larger perks and such because they are moving more product. I do def think that a lot of decisions and discussions need to go on with both the pharmacies and the government but Shoppers way of doing things isn’t the right way of going about it.
Kind of like minimum wage going up so much in the past few years, anyone notice how that extra person is gone now? Mcdonalds only has one till open and 25 people in line, Timmies is swamped and that extra runner has been eliminated……
While they have every right to add extra costs to their services because they are a business, I think it’s greedy and they are going to eventually shoot themselves in the foot. Why does SDM have to have a 24 hr pharmacy anyways? Most Drs leave their office by 6pm, Clincs aren’t open after 9pm and if you go to the Emergency room and need drugs they generally are able to dispense some to “hold you over” until you can get to a drug store in the morning. I know, I know it’s all about profits. SDM is right, money talks, so take your business to another pharmacy (local small ones) and leave SDM in the dust. Just my thoughts on the issue.
Oh and btw I don’t use SDM anyways because of their insane dispensing fee, only when I desperately can’t make it out to Walmart and need a prescription filled. My last perscription at SDM cost me $13.58 and $11.99 of that was the dispencing fee.
Really Sally?? Wow that is bad service! At work most of us are trained to show patients how to use the monitors to show patients for diabetes and the pharmacist is always talking to patients about their medications and asking if they have questions, as well as talking to them on the phone if they have concerns.
They are also putting immense pressure on the small pharmacies that don’t have such a high turn out especially in rural areas…Which means they will have to greatly raise prices for dispensing fees and start charging for additional services because they just cant afford to make ends meet without passing on extra charges to the customers, and it will mean the closure of a lot of small mom and pop businesses because they wont be able to make a profit.
It may also mean that a lot of elderly or chronically ill say screw it and stop taking meds because the copay isnt fully covered or they have to pay for deliveries and cant afford it so they just stop taking medication all together.
This is nohing more than a case of the “BIG KID” told to behave in the sandbox. The Big kid takes his/her toys and leaves.
Sure this is going to cut into the profits, but they were making gross amounts of $$ to start with!!
If you don’t think so, think of what they charged you to fill a prescription. $10.49…$10.99 or higher.
Costco charges $4.11( my personal Choice)… Walmart is somewhere between.
Think about what SDM is doing, they were charging you to buy from them.
Imagine, going to the a full serve gas station, asking to fill the car up. your total is $45 bucks, but the attendant says you owe $50…. the extra $5 covers my wages, hydro, ect… you wouldn’t return tot hat station ever again. Would you!
Here’s hoping the rest of Canada’s province’s step up, and do the same thing.
I’m not a fan of Shoppers Drug Mart anyways, their prices are terrible except for sales… and their dispensing fees are the worst.
The difference is that the government already regulates costs by only allowing a 10% markup on the cost of drugs. What business could survive on that kind of markup? The dispensing fee pays wages, business costs, overhead etc. The government already caps what they will pay for the dispensing fees as well as many private drug plans. The pharmacy then has the option to pass the difference on to the customer or eat it themselves. The locally owned pharmacies usually waive it. Did anyone ever look at the dispensing fee for optometrists? Check that one out before you complain about pharmacy.
That being said, Shoppers is probably the most profitable pharmacy in Canada. It’s all about the bottom line for them, not customer service so I don’t feel sorry for them at all.
Perhaps this is time for the smaller ones to catch up and shine.
SDM has been dominating the market for too long and some of their prices are simply outrages. I practically have to wait until they go on sale or give 20x points and I go buy fro SDM.
I don’t understand the funding “gap” already in place. Why does it cost 13.77 to dispense a prescription like the website says? How was that fee calculated?
Don’t economies of scale lower that fee?
where did this magical stated fee price come from? I understand that direct funding is what 8.70$ per script. The pharmacy in my hood appears to process about 20 prescriptions an hour. so the government pays them approx 200$ hr? I would assume it’s bringing in 500K a year to the business? .
The cost of 1 pharmacist is about 60K. so 4 employee’s, an owner, and shop, how can they not stay afloat?
Ok, I live in Nova Scotia and we dont pay dispensing fees (unless they are sneaky and hid it in the price) so I feel bad for all you in Ontario. I understand that SDM has to do something to recoup their lost money but their presentation of this defenitly leaves something to be desired. Quietly introducing these fees at a later date with an explanation would have been better for their public image. Also Jeff, Costco charges you to shop at their store too and you prefer to shop there. Its just in a charge in a different way but they have you believing that its worth the price to shop there.
I can’t say what it is like in other provinces, but here in Alberta we have similar issues. Shoppers isn’t perfect, but I see a lot more integrity in Shoppers Drug Mart than in our provincial health ministry.
It actually costs $14 for dispensing fees yet the government caps it currently at $7 for people on plans…so 10.99 is a deal considering they will probably soon be charging the full possible amount to recoup costs.
They also already regulate pretty much everything a pharmacy is allowed to do, and yes most locally owned places eat the costs instead of passing it on to patients but that will have to change if these businesses plan to stay open after these changes come into effect.
The media and the government is gravely misleading the public.
I also go only to a local small independent pharmacy (owner took over a former SDM location). Nonetheless, I am always shocked at the dispensing fee versus the actual cost of the drugs.
oops guess I wasnt clear there the actual cost to dispense medication has been calculated at $14 but most pharmacies don’t charge that, plus the government caps it at $7 for people on plans…
Dispensing fees are regulated by the governing bodies, and it was the mid/late 80s when it was legislated that pharmacies had to identify the dispensing fee, which in turn is the “mark up” per se. Lori, you are correct in identifying that the drug itself has a 10% actual mark up, but that generally covers the cost of inventory. There are additional fees on so many goods and services already folks and organizations are being forced to be transparent…who here remembers gas and hydro bills that were just one number…now those utilities are regulated to break down the cost of the services….yea to the consumer. However, to charge delivery on a service that is NOT the standard in the industry is completely silly….I do not recall anyone charging a fuel surcharge for Rx delivery in the early 2000s when gas skyrocketed….transportation companies, couriers, etc added fuel surcharges. I agree….kids not playing nice and having a wee temper tantrum…they did this when drug stores were no longer allowed to retail ciggies in the 90s…if you recall….THAT made SDM angry and they tried to fight back….of course one of the largest tobacco manuf’s own SDM.
@smartmama: Are you also shocked by a doctor’s or lawyer’s fees? As with all professions, becoming a pharmacist takes a lot of time and money, and it’s a lifelong commitment to learning.
roseofblack….Out of complete curiosity….Why does it cost $14 for someone to walk over to the shelf to pull my 3 packs of brand name birth control from the box? And I have to wait an hour for this to happen?
3 Words:
Go to costco
seuil: I think you missed my point- I am shocked to pay $3 for my prescription but a $13.50 dispensing fee. I don’t think the dispensing fee has anything to do with the pharmacist. If it did, that is a sad comment that we are paying so much to count out pills. That certainly is the case for my prescription for thyroid medication.
By the way, my husband and I both work in professions.
I think before everyone starts picking sides they need to inform themselves outside of 2 newspaper articles about the issues on hand.
Maybe people don’t realize this (or care) but independent pharmacies WILL close if legislation goes through – they will have no means of surviving and Shoppers will have an even greater monopoly on pharmacies in Ontario.
Peoples’ jobs (namely pharmacy techs) are at stake and a lot of them will get laid off so don’t go and take this out on them either.
Also, jaqkev, you complain about wait time? Well I suppose you don’t think that all those people ahead of you don’t deserve to get their prescriptions before you then? I never understand why people get so angry about wait times – it’s common social convention to be served in line – first come, first serve. So yes, it doesn’t take an hour to grab YOUR medications, but everyone in front of you will need to be served first, isn’t that just common sense? By the way, if you’re complaining now, just wait until legislation passes, wait times will more than double.
People don’t realize all the added services they really do receive from pharmacies, I could go on and on about this – but just think of this: since when is free delivery considered a RIGHT to a customer? Just because they give it for free – doesn’t mean it’s FREE to them. The pharmacies incur that fee.
p.s. in the US, customers have to PAY to get counseled by pharmacists something that may soon become a reality for us Canadians too.
If you get your prescription filled at a Costco in Ontario, you do not have to have a membership fee. You can simply go in to get your script filled.I have no idea how that is the case, but my family members swear by going to Costco. I have a drug plan with my work, and the filling fee is the same regardless if I use the plan to cover the meds or not.
@seuil: those who choose to become a professional (doctor, lawyer, dentist, vet) should NOT make any consumer feel guilty because that person chose to pursue that profession. It is NOT the consumer’s responsibility to pay off any professionals debt, and for professionals to complain when the consumer complains about the cost of their services, claiming how much they had to pay for school and that is why the fees are what they is UNETHICAL.
I think we should all start going to compound pharmacies, and get custom-made scripts.
It doesn’t hurt to shop around. Ask as many questions as you can get away with in your 15 min with your doc. See if there are any other alternatives to the meds. And, count your blessings if the most meds you need to pick up from the drugstore is prednisone or birth control pills. Some folks pay over $30 a pill, and I’m not talking the little blue diamond-shaped pill for the men….
While it is true that you do pay a fee to shop at Costco, I think it’s well worth it to pay a $50/yearly membership fee to Costco in order to get your prescriptions (dispensing fee) at a drastically reduced rate. If you are one of the many who have monthly prescriptions, you can easily eat that $50 membership fee up in the time it takes you to get 6 prescriptions filled at SDM, and than every prescription after that, you are saving $7.88/prescription.
seuil: one more answer to your question- I have never seen a doctor’s bill as we do not have to pay them as you know. Have paid a lot of legal bills though and although the cost is generally huge, the amount of work they do for that bill is also significant. There is no comparison at all to counting out pills.
Interesting points everyone.
Re get informed. Yes I encourage everyone to google or Bing more results, I simply just posted 2 random articles.
I find the service at my local pharmacy to be far better than SDM. Shoppers is good for its Optimum program but little else. When I fill a prescription at my local pharmacy I don’t have to pay anything and the pharmacist is quite helpful however at the SDM I have to pay about $3 or $4 because their dispensing fee is in excess of what my insurance will cover. Optimum points don’t come for free 🙂
@jaqkev the dispensing fee isnt just for pulling it off the shelf…and it shouldnt take an hour unless they have a ton of people ahead of you than its first come first serve…
The dispensing fee covers the professional services your pharmacists and technicians provide not JUST pulling a box off the shelf and handing it to you…if it was that easy you would be able to buy it OTC.
The fee covers putting your prescription into the computer, checking for any drug to drug reactions in your profile, consulting with the doctor if there is a problem, accurately counting out the medication (if it requires being counted and bottled), providing information to you about the drug and side effects if it is your first time taking the drug, and for being available should you have any questions later about the prescription or allergic reactions.
I think we, in Canada, are very fortunate that we pay so little for drugs and that we already know the mark-up is the dispensing fee. In BC, if the pharmacy had to rely on dispensing fees alone for their existence, each would operate at a loss and go out of business.
There’s alot more involved than “just counting pills” for goodness sakes. When you drop off your prescription there are many prescriptions that have been dropped off, faxed, mailed, phoned in etc. in line to be filled. They all have to be entered, checked for interactions, billing problems dealt with, all while answering phones, being interrupted by customers wanting to know where the Tide is that’s on sale, rebilling prescriptions that come back from the till because the customer didn’t give the current drug card, etc. Then they are put in line to be counted where the prescription is double checked by the counting technician who is also answering phones and recounting prescriptions that have been sent back because the customer has changed their mind on the quantity they would like this time. Then they are sent to the Pharmacist who, in between phone calls, customer questions, counselling etc. will thoroughly check the prescription to make sure it gets to you correctly.
Also there is ordering, receiving, blister packaging,delivery, mail and many more tasks going on that have to be done as well.
It’s not McDonald’s we’re dealing with here, it’s your life and you can bet the complainers would be the first one’s screaming if their prescription wasn’t right.
I’m sorry Rose but I just never have seen these “professional services” offered unless your talking about the health movies that are free rental. Honestly for anything such as diabetics, health and eating etc there are all seperate speicialists that we get sent to. Everything else is on the print out sheet they hand us.. drug interactions etc.
I’m not just talking about once pharmacy either im talking about all the pharmacies I’ve used. I do realize that you work at a pharmacy but its just not so clean cut. Its not all drugs that this will take effect on, its generics only.
@getinformed yes where I work will be affected greatly if this passes and I feel like the government is making pharmacies out to be the bad guys. They are also seriously confusing a lot of people because they are only focusing on how much cheaper generics will be when that isn’t the whole picture.
@Kez – It’s not about making the patient feel obligated to “pay off” any professional’s debt; it’s about being compensated adequately for one’s time given all the specialized training a pharmacist must undergo and the knowledge a pharmacist has. If you’ve been following the debates you would see that pharmacists aren’t trying to guilt patients into anything. They are simply making the argument that cuts to funding would result in cuts to services, which would be a situation in which everyone loses.
I’m not sure if you were being tongue-in-cheek, but custom prescriptions are actually quite expensive (and you can’t get it unless it’s necessary, obviously.) As for your comment about alternatives, pharmacists are trained to provide non-pharmacological options and to promote lifestyle changes that would help in the maintenance/improvement of health. Pharmacists are not taught to push drugs because it is the cure-all; especially with regards to preventable morbidity, pharmacists are taught that drugs are the last resort and that they only provide a window of opportunity during which the patient should do one’s best to make health-promoting changes.
Whether each pharmacist has these discussions with patients or whether the patients are willing to actually spend the time with the pharmacist is another story.
@smartmama – The dispensing fee has everything to do with the pharmacist: “pharmacists receive a dispensing fee for filling prescriptions” (http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/pub/drugs/dispense.html), but of course it goes to covering other staff members’ salaries and overhead costs rather than into the pharmacist’s pocket.
Pharmacists do not just “count pills” (that is meant to be the pharmacy technician’s job.) They are there to make sure that the medication you are taking is the most appropriate and safest choice for you. And as some of the most accessible health care providers to the public, they are there to answer questions about over-the-counter medication, about prescription drugs that doctors don’t always have the time to explain, about that rash that you’ve suddenly developed, or about how to get that contact lens out of your eye, etc. etc. Pharmacists do so much more than dispense, and there are countless stories about them helping patients avoid having to go to the emergency room (which saves the patient time and would further drive up health care costs) or identifying drug interactions that could have resulted in significant harm to the patient.
I’m sorry if the pharmacists you’ve encountered have never provided such services to you, but that doesn’t mean that one should reduce their role to “counting pills.”
You’re right that you don’t see doctors’ bills, but given the media coverage of their salaries (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061004/ont_doctors_061004), one can see that they make a lot more than your Average Joe.
@sally really thats sad they dont do it at any of the pharmacies you have gone to 🙁 you should come to the one I am at! We do all of the above for everyone…I’m not even allowed to give a new prescription to a patient until the pharmacist comes over and talks to them about it and tells them about side effects/signs of allergic reactions etc…and we are all trained how to use the monitoring systems so that if someone new to it comes in and asks one of us can show them with our store machine before they take their own home.
I’d like to sit and read both sides throughoughly but I do really think SDM is throwing a baby fit and being completely irrational impplementing these changes immediately. A normal rational company would sit at the playing table with the government and go over things like adults.
But no, lets be SDM and punish THE CUSTOMER immediately rather then deal with the government. I think thats what grinds my gears the most is immediately punishing the customer.
I’m a pharmacy student and reading public opinions on these issues is always disappointing. Especially when people continue to say that pharmacists are simply pill-counters. I’m not paying 13,000 dollars for tuition alone, and going to school for another 4 years, so I can just count your pills. Am I saying that filling prescriptions costs that much so I can pay off my student debt? No. I’m trying to say though, that you are undermining my profession and it’s because the public is ill-informed of what a pharmacist is capable of. We are experts in drug therapy. Pharmacists counsel patients on how to use their drugs because we know best. When a script is dispensed, any interactions are assessed and this is extremely important for those taking many medications. While this seems insignificant to the average person aged under 50 who gets a prescription once in a blue moon, some seniors regularly take up to 10 prescription drugs on a regular basis. When you have a question for your doctor, you have to make an appointment. And you are billed. Everytime you walk into a pharmacy and ask a pharmacist a question, you aren’t billed nor do you make an appointment. Our knowledge about drugs was taught to us so we could provide the public with a service. But we aren’t paid for it, which doesn’t seem too logical imo.
Obviously our first duty is to the patient. We are healthcare professionals and patient care is our priority. However, pharmacists must deal with the business aspect of things too. Unlike a doctor. Yes, the average cost to dispense a medication is $14. Why? Because when a pharmacy fills the prescription, there are a lot of costs that are not accounted for. For example, at any one time, a Shoppers may carry upwards of $1 million in drug stocks. Those drugs have to be paid for, before any prescriptions are filled. There are costs for things like paper (you’d be surprised at how much paper a pharmacy can go through), wages for techs, electricity, and yes, those services like deliveries need to be paid for as well. In the last 20 years, the government has increased the amount they pay for ODB plan members by like 50 cents. 50 cents in 20 years. Minimum wage has jumped several dollars already because of the rising cost of living.
Also, those who are encouraging going to Costco or Wal-Mart need to realize that comparing the fee that they charge and the fee that the average pharmacy charges is somewhat moot. They still also pay $14 per prescription. But they don’t need to charge more, because they essentially don’t really need to make a profit off of their pharmacy. It’s almost like a freebie in the store to attract customers. They can afford to take the loss because you specifically go there for prescriptions, and often, you do shop for other things while you’re at it.
Anyway, this was just a short rant. I honestly just wish pharmacists had better PR so people could better understand the situation. I know that’s really what people want: an understanding of why things are the way they are.
Dispensing fees are definitely not just for counting pills. The government requires professionals to disclose the amount of money they make on a transaction, this is how they get paid. They don’t get money from the cost of the drug, that is their cost to acquire and store the drug. You don’t expect to work for free, so why would you expect them to work for free? And of course Costco and Walmart’s dispensing fees are cheaper, they just want you in their store because chances are you’ll spend more money in there if you come in for a prescription. You really wouldn’t be spending hundreds of dollars at a drug store buying clothes, food, furniture etc….
Bump on the Shoppers Drug Mart support, you ask why Shoppers has to pass the fees onto the customers, well it’s because the customers are the only way for government to realize the aftermath of passing this legislation. Corporations can complain to the government all they want but governments will not listen, even some of you people here think shopper’s is just being a cry baby but the reality is shoppers is defending all pharmaceutical professions.
You say that pharmacies should take this up with the government, well they have, for years and years, but with no real community impact the government will not change their minds. the consumers are the ones with the power.
Of course it’s understandable that the government has much to juggle in terms of funding and balancing economies, so its not their fault absolute to realize the impact of the pharmacy industry.
All in all, Shoppers is doing this for benefit of private small pharmacies as well. If this legislation passes most small local pharmacies will not be able to make it, and of course they are not a real force to oppose governments so shopper’s is acting like a defensive big brother figure. (although job cuts are an abrasive method.. but at least we hope it will make a difference)
In the mean time, if you find the cost too high, go to walmart or costco. these corporations do not “rip customers off” as you would call, because they make money from other services. they could care less if the pharmacy field collapsed, but in the end, if the legislations passes, its all pharmacies that suffer.
Do you really think Shoppers cares about all the little guys? Thats kind of laughable. They do not care about anyone but themselves.Shoppers is very cutthroat and the Walmart of pharmacies.
Btw, my article wasnt meant to be so personally taken butter cookie. I dont even use Shoppers, I use Zehrs now and our drugs are covered anyways. As for me speaking of their hissy fits, its not the first time I’ve seen them jump the gun about an issue. I’ve dealt with them (head office) on a personal basis for work and found them irrational and completely awful to deal with.
It actually doesnt matter much if they are thinking just about themselves or if they do actually care, because they are getting the word out about the cuts way better than say your local small mom and pop pharmacy would. You would never see the small family run pharmacy on every newspaper, or being covered by all the news programs, but when shoppers does it than it makes all kinds of news and in turn is spreading the word. Plus it won’t make the family run businesses look bad when they are forced to follow suit.
Excellent points Rose.
This is so typical of big companies to take it out on the little guys!!! I am seriously considering not going to Shoppper’s any more!!! Ridiculous that we should be penalized. It’s their own fault for being so greedy.
I am a pharmacy student and currently, I should be studying for my exams, but I just cant seem to focus when such a big change is happening to our profession. Although I do think Shoppers is trying to make a point by reducing their store hours and charging for services, starting with their store in London, and their CEO probably could have handled this better. I can understand the reason behind their actions. They are just trying to show the public all the services they provide, that are taken for granted. Make no mistake, all the services such as free delivery and counselling, cost money and the cost is not covered by the government. Pharmacies used to use professional allowances from the pharmaceutical industry to help pay for those services, but with the government’s removal of the allowances, the cost of those services has to come from somewhere. Therefore it makes sense to charge the customers for them. That is not the pharmacies being greedy, that is common sense.
Another point, the pharmacists of Ontario has been talking to the government regarding reducing health care costs for a number of year now and they have also been making suggestions to the government. It is the government that pulled out of the talks for no reason last fall and then announced this change with out any warnings or consultation with Ontario pharmacist. They have also went back on their words that they could only regulate the ODB patients, not the private plans. And Deb Matthews has been nothing but disrespectful to the pharmacist of Ontario. She accused us of taking ‘kick-backs’ from the generic pharmaceutical companies, in the form of professional allowances, when it is her own government that introduced the professional allowances as a way of reducing the amount of money the government would have to pay pharmacies for the services they provide.
getinformed: I should have clarified. It was 10:30AM at my local SDM. There wasn’t a single person in the store besides myself and my children. The tech, opened my file on the computer, noticed that I was able to pick up 3 more packs in my script, turned to the clock and said, that will be ready in an hour. This has also happened at 10pm when I’m filling a dexamethasone script for my croupy son. I have also received pill packs where they have obviously been returned by a previous client. How do I know this? Because their label is still on the package under mine. I’m fine with the fact that it was returned, just not okay that their personal information was left for me to find. This has been the standard of service that I have received at this SDM.
Prior to moving to Ottawa, we lived somewhat near a fabulous SDM in Oshawa. I would have never considered going elsewhere (drove 15km to get there). Now though…I’m definitely taking our family’s scripts elsewhere.
I just think there has got to be a more productive way to input/check on a script so that it won’t take an hour for the average person.
JaqKev:
You legally are not able to return prescription medications. Even if it is a sealed package.
I agree with you that, the other patient’s info should not have been left on the package. But it was probably put on for the patient, who later decided not to purchase the medication after all.
Is it wrong for me to comment that you may have jumped the gun on this post Sally, without reading into both sides?
That was not very nice of you to censor my comment.
Perhaps you did not like me imitating your comments. Are you the only one that is able to make strong statements about affecting customers?
Diana all posts with my name or swearing are automatically censored until approved. Please calm down you do not need to attack me personally.
I’m sorry your a strong supporter of SDM. I simply just am not. If you perhaps re read my original post I wasn’t saying that I wanted to see small pharmacies close. I just do not think what SDM is doing is right.
I have of course read both side and will continue reading both sides. It willl not change my viewpoint that what SDM has done is wrong and punishing customers (I’m not even a customer)
I apologize if you feel that I have “attacked” you.
I suppose it is because I feel angry when people such as yourself de-value the services that pharmacists provide to the public.
Many customers today feel entitled to things: free delivery, round the clock service, free medications, immediate service, whatever the case may be.
Many customers feel like it should be so easy to pick up a box off a shelf and count out some pills. Of course if it were that easy, you could do it yourself. But you can’t. And there are reasons for that. There are reasons that the pharmacist dispenses you your medications, and that you can’t just pick it up off the shelf like you would with a bottle of Advil. Enough people above my comment have explained these reasons so I won’t go in to furhter detail.
My pharmacy, a small local pharmacy that actually still does make up a lot of specialty meds, had included information about how this would seriously effect the little guy last month in a script I had filled.
http://www.yurekpharmacy.com/index.html
Even if everyone switched to an independently owned and run pharmacy I don’t know what good it would do? At the very least Shoppers can recoup some of its pharmacy expenses through their higher every day priced items (we all complain about that!!) but the small pharmacies don’t really have a secondary business to fall back on, They may have a few odds and ends but being such good consumers we would never support these little pharmacies by actually shopping there when we can get deodorant at Wal-mart for $0.14 each!
Its the governments fault for putting consumers in the middle of this mess, but we will end up doing what serves our pocketbook best.
Diana How exactly did I de-value the services? I never said all they do is count pills. Nor did I say I feel entitled to free delievery, round the clock service, free medications, immediate service or anything you have mentioned. I never said a pharmacists job was easy.
I simply think SDM is going about this situation completely wrong. I dont shop at SDM. II’d rather support small stores then SDM. Like I said my main point in the piece is SDM and how they’ve reacted to this.
Thats all.
The main points of your post are:
SDM is charging fees for delivery and thus you are no longer receiving free delivery. SDM is cutting store hours, and thus they no longer are providing round the clock service.
And secondly, that SDM is wrong in doing this.
So as a result, one would naturally make the connection, that you believe SDM is wrong to not provide free delivery or 24hr service.
Because you feel entitled to have these free services available, even if you specifically don’t use SDM.
oh lord thats really stretching it too much. Goodnight. You and I both know thats not what I meant.
That may not have been what you meant, but believing that a company is wrong in no longer providing you with certain free services, means that you feel at least somewhat entitled to those free services.
Have a wonderful night.
I think a lot of the issue that people have with this latest move of what SDM is doing is simple, they are taking the following stance: We will with hold needed services from the public unless we get our way. Have they come out and said they are with holding services? No, but by cutting hours, closing stores and charging for a service they didn’t previously they are cutting off certain people from receiving their services. $5 to one person might not be anything but to the next person it could be the difference between having lunch one day and not the next. Pharmacists are Health Care Professionals. Should they work for Free? No. Should they operate in the red? No of course not. But let’s be honest here folks, SDM isn’t going to go bankrupt if the no longer get their government allowance. Instead of making 2 billion this year they may only make 1 billion, but they surely will not go bankrupt. By SDM making a move to essentially cut people off from their services they are effectively saying that as Health Care Professionals they are more concerned about what fills their pocket at the end of the day rather than making sure that they give needed and important services to the public. JMO.
wow this turned into a train wreck…
So Shoppers has just gone through this massive phase of expansion, adding giant stores and new locations it seems on every other street corner. Now, they’re crying poor and cutting back? So it would appear that my tax dollars paid for all that expansion. Sorry you got too big & bloated for your own good Shoppers. Maybe remembering that you’re a pharmacy, not a grocery store, and focusing on that business will do your business model some good.
they had big plans to build a shoppers here now its this big gapping hole in the middle of town and from the sounds of it they aren’t going to build it now. So they tore down a whole block of neat looking old buildings and bought people out of their homes to make room for the parking lot and now they aren’t even going to build it…LAME (but good for where I work! Less competition)
If the pharmacist is a good then I have no problems with SDM. THey’re dispensing fees are ludacris and I used to cheap out at costco or WM but the service of 1 particular pharmicist at 1 SDM location had made me want to come back again and again. Ususally im covered but the kids arent:( My Dr is a DOOFUS and even though Ive explained to her several times that most name brand med arent covered she always perscribes them. SO When I get to the pharmacy they have to call/fax back and forth with my Drs office to get different meds that will be covered. Its not all my Drs fault NIHB isnt the best but its free so I wont complain.
Go to COSTCO .
you DO NOT NEED a COSTCO CARD or you DON’T HAVE TO PAY COSTCO MEMBERSHIP fee to access the COSTCO PHARMACY !!!..by law they have to give you access to their pharmacy even if you DON’T have COSTCO Membership or DON’T want to pay for it .
COSTCO has the lowest dispensing fee its less than $ 5 as compared to Shopper’s $ 11.99 which is INSANE !!
@ sally,
whether shoppers actually cares or not about the little guys isnt the point here, it’s end result, which is raising the issue and making a big media deal here. shoppers is the only corp big enough in canada to challenge these legislations, and if they win everyone wins in terms of small local pharmacies and consumers, and if they lose, everyone loses.
@ ES – definitely, the way Deb Matthews used “kick-backs” to sketch out ontario pharmacists as being greedy is very unfair. The professional allowances are the government’s own method of cutting cost from health, shifting their economic burden into the generic companies hands, but someone has to pay for the cost of services and clearly it’s not the government; really does not appreciate Deb’s bias
@ tara – true true sdm will not go bankrupt if they didnt take a stance. infact SDM will probably be the least affected stores if the legislation goes through and all the cuts are made. Granted their motives are heavily based on money, but end of the day any benefits shoppers gets small local businesses will get too, and consumers, and vice versa if shoppers hurts then the small businesses will hurt more and consumers hurt too
like someone above said it’s the governments own fault for bringing consumers into this, but at least at this point, things can still change. im not a shoppers mega fan by any means, but im loyal to the pharmacy profession. and even though it’s not the nicest thing for shoppers to act so aggressively, im at least hopeful that the standoff will have some sort of impact on these health legislations
Pharmacists are bloody well paid! I won’t go so far as to say they’re over paid, but this little pinch in their pocket – for the good of the common folk who don’t get $300,000 per year ‘bonus’ simply for keeping certain drug companies products on their shelves – is hardly going to prevent any of them from enjoying the lifestyle they’re accustomed to.
Suck it up SDM!
The government is not playing fair with pharmacy and is not looking out for the best interest of patients, especially vulnerable patients that require additional care, which is not covered by ODB. Independent pharmacy does not have the money or power to hire the PR experts that the government has, so we are trying to unite to fight these cuts that we know will hurt our business and our vulnerable patients. I do not agree with SDM’s knee jerk reaction. I think it would be better to inform the public that everytime they phone Telehealth for advice the government pays Telehealth $39,if you see your Doctor for a 5 minute appt he/she gets almost $30. The government will have to pay Telehealth and Doctors these fees more often once pharmacies lose their rebates. Once pharmacy loses this important funding from rebates we will have job cuts, reduced patient care, increased costs to our overall healthcare system and possibly some small independent pharmacies going out of business. I really don’t understand how these cuts can be good for pharmacy, patients or health care in general.
Doesn’t really affect me as I rarely shop at SDM. Everything is ridiculously over-priced. A sale price is equal to non-sale rice at other retail stores. ie. wal-mart
Well don’t blame the employees,they just work there. It’s whomever started doing this. I agree, give me a break they make a lot of money.
@Jay
The $300,000 per year stated in many articles, is the amount of money pharmacies would lose with this change in policy, not each pharmacist. This amount is equivalent to hiring 3 pharmacists full time. And the money from the generic companies are not used as ‘bonus’ for pharmacists, they are used to provide services to the patients such as free delivery and counselling. Services that the government does not pay for. Please better inform yourself before insulting the integrity of pharmacists.
I am very interested in knowing what everyone thinks “counseling services” provided by a pharmacist consists of. When I get my prescription the pharmacist asks if I’ve had that medication before (even the stuff I get recurring every month) and than tells me what it’s for, something that I know because my Dr prescribed that medication for the issue I saw him for. They sometimes proceed to tell me whether to take it with food or not and whether or not you should drink alcohol while taking the medication. And sometimes they will say there are side effects such as (insert side effect here) But this is all information that is labeled on the side of the bottle(take with food, may cause drowsiness, etc) and within the print out they give you (side effects). I hardly deem that “counseling” a worthy argument from pharmacies to be given a government allowance to the tune of 750 million a year here in Ontario for. Sorry.
@butt3rCooki3 The only reason I reference SDM solely in my posts here is because the OP was in regards to SDM. I do understand that this would affect all pharmacies across the board, and I hope this does not come across as heartless as I think it might but here are my feelings. Speaking from a solely business perspective, in the world of business the strong survive and the feeble get weeded out, hat’s just how it is. If a business can’t survive on it’s own 2 feet than they close, that unfortunately is how the corporate world operates. Granted the smaller pharmacies going out of business means more business will be shoved SDM’s way and they will continue to turn a good profit.
SDM in my opinion is trying to pull a big dramatic stunt, nothing more, nothing less.
I had originally studied to become a massage therapist at school. In my final year of studies, our teachers told us, don’t expect to make a profit in your first 5 years of practice. Either working for a clinic or having your own practice. I truly wanted to be a health care professional, but, being 24, coming out of school, with student debt, there wasn’t an option to NOT make a reasonable amount of money. Knowing that the profession was shifting each year towards being on the same level as doctors and chiropractors, but never to be covered by provincial health care, I changed direction in my career.
What does this have to do with pharmacists? As a pharmacist, you have chosen to abide by a code of ethics to help consumers. Your motivation I would hope was to become a pharmacist to use your training to make other lives better. I agree that they are experts in pharmacology, no doubt, and I don’t argue how much time one goes to school to become a pharmacist. But, guess what, pharmacists, along with almost all the other health care professionals, are regulated, and as such, when governments make decisions in the realm of health care, often, the bottom line is it negatively affects the consumer. Remember when OHIP stopped the level of coverage for physiotherapy?
Governments make changes that negatively affect the pharmacists. An organization like SDM decides to fight back, by doing things that overall hinder their consumers? Tell me, government officials, with their salaries, do you think THEY care about rising costs of a filling fee? Who does it affect? The folks who make low income but rely on daily meds like prednisone/high blood pressure meds, or single parent families who need meds for their sick child.
As a consumer not involved in governments or the health care sector anymore, it all sounds VERY selfish, on both sides.
I understand the issue with people coming to expect things, like the free delivery……If thats an issue then I agree that SDM should charge a small fee for delivery but it’s how they are going about it right now. They are acting ike a petulant child that is throwing a tantrum…..they may get something taken away from them so they’re going to anger their customers to try to get the government to back off??
I was in SDM on the weekend picking up my dads scripts and the girl at the counter was trying to get everyone to sign a petition about this. I asked her what the petition was for and her explanation was the government was going to cut back money to the pharmacies and that would mean no drug counselling. Honestly I don’t think she even knew what it was for but they were holding everyone up in line to get people to sign.
As for the counselling? I agree that I don’t get the info from the pharmacist as “counselling”, they ask me if I’ve ever taken the drug then tell me when to take it, for how long and sometimes they tell me what side effects may occur….all the same info that is in the bag already on the information sheet. If thats what they’re fighting about then I think I can do without the counselling. I take quite a few meds for a chronic condition I have and I have used WalMart and SDM for prescriptions, it’s the same level of service at any of them, but I do not agree with how SDM is acting in this.
There’s a saying when two elephants fight, the monkies get trampled. In this case Shoppers versus the Ontario government. The victims are not solely the consumers, it’s the independent pharmacies and the employees. Most of the arguments i read here seems to be pharmacists versus comsumers. It seems like Shoppers is a pharmacists organization. Many independent pharmacies will close and Shoppers will survive one way or another. As for Shoppers employees, there’s another story. some of you just care about your 59 cents facial tissues or your 14.99 diapers. You actually think that this should be the regular prices and nothing more. Guess what company take the lost in hope that they made up for other non-losing items. Notice there haven’t been much sales form the groceries store lately compare to 3 or more years ago? This is going to happen to other retail stores as well. Pharmacists, and other employees are the front line workers in a drug stores. They get to encounter the nastiness of consumers reaction with no back up from their corporate office. They will just absorbed the anger from these consumers and nothing will actually happen. And the result of this new legislation will affect thousands of employees, mostly Shoppers employeees because of it’s size. You think the line up and the waiting is long right now. It will get worst. That’s right, the CEO or the VP’s and the upper managements still get their bonuses regardless of the legislation. At the expenses of fewer employees,no annual increment( like 2% of a 10.25 minimum wage). ways to make you work beyond your 8 hours shift without paying you. Yup, in the name of salaried employees base on 40 hours many employees do work beyond that . That’s how company like Shoppers take advantage of it’s employees wihtout actually getting into legal trouble. If the employees have any voice , they would have form unions like Loblaws. Unfortunately, these are usually immigrants who are to afraid to lose their job to even make a sound. Canada is the new third world country when it comes to its workforce. My point is when everyone only care about their own pockets when it comes to issue such as this new legislation. Consumers lash out because its going to cost them more one way or another. Politicians need to cut cost and company like Shoppers would never give up a penny for any reason. The end results will be the same. Consumers will not save money in the long run. Employees will lose their jobs or work at a reduce wage (hours get cut) and intense pressure from the corporate office to dump down on them.
I can’t comment on that….to much complaining. If you’re not happy with what SDM is doing, go else where. And do you not think that delivery should have a charge??? When you order pizza, you have a charge…anything that you get delivered have a charge, why not SDM? But again, if your not happy with what they do, go else where and stop complaining, we do to much of that.
I work for SDM here in Manitoba and even though I do not work in the pharmacy, I would like to state one thing that is being overlooked here.
When you choose to go to Walmart and Costco, just remember that not only are you choosing to support American corporations over Canadian (two of which in particular who are most often blamed for the destruction of the proverbial “little guy” businesses within North America) but also, those retailers are able to charge less because they are not pharmacies by designation. They are retailers. They are not experts, that is a side business for them, just like their photo labs and automotive, they can recoup the losses on the prescriptions/OTC elsewhere. Despite all the other areas of the store such as some grocery, photo and cosmetics, Shoppers is designated as a pharmacy, period.
If a pharmacist is not present in the store, we cannot, by law be open. Plain and simple. I don’t see Costco or Walmart offering pharmacy services until midnight much less 24 hours! The reason for 24 SDMs is usually because they are in close proximity of hospitals. Hospitals, that I may remind you, do not have a pharmacist on staff 24 hr a day. Who do you expect to fill your Rx then, should you need it in the wee hours of the morning from an unfortunate ER visit?
If your SDM is not providing proper customer service, PLEASE call 1-800-SHOPPER and let them know! You, as the customer, have the power to influence Shoppers’ practices.
Well said Maisce!
I actually just read this entire post from the last post I made and all I can say is wow. I feel badly for the people that have crappy pharmacists as mine is wonderful. I feel happy that I dont pay these fees in NS. I am sad that people dont appreciate the long long education that it takes to become a pharmacist as well as the continuing education required. I also think that if people dont want the “little guys” to go out of business they should seriously reconsider going to Costco as they are one of the biggest box stores out there! wow, Sally you sparked quite the debate. I feel way more informed of how things are done in other parts of my country!
Well said Janine, I’m actually really surprised that the people who will appreciate and need cheaper medication haven’t stood up in this post. It kinda of surprises me actually.
Janine – sounds like you have the same kind of pharmacist I had back home in NS. I have yet to visit a pharmacy here in Alberta, but my experience with pharmacists in my hometown was that they frankly knew more than the doctors did about medications, etc. I would get a prescription from my doctor scribbled on a note with no real discussion, then take it to the pharmacy where it would be explained to me in detail, dosage, interactions, etc. If I had a question about a product on the shelf, they were more than happy to take the time to explain the options to me. After a failed ER visit – I was breastfeeding and miserably sick but didn’t know what I could take and at that time you couldn’t get advice over the phone so waited 6 hours and finally left in tears – I went to my pharmacist and he told me what I needed, gave me excellent advice and had me back on my feet in a couple of days.
Honestly, I didn’t realize any pharmacy offered free delivery of prescriptions, much less of regular shopping. I would expect to pay for that service. Like someone said, if I’m going to pay $5.00 or more to have PIZZA delivered… and you’ll pay more than $10.00 if you hire someone go and do your shopping for you.
I work as a pharmacy technician in a pharmacy and YES the pharmacies do get big bucks to use their generic products. In our store we have a set list of which company we have to use. God help us if we are out of that brand and have to substitute another companies generic brand. WHY because the pharmacy is not getting money to use that brand. As for blood glucose monitors, BP monitors it is us techs in our store that help the patients. Not the pharmacits in our store. I am positive not one of our pharmacists know how to even turn on a blood glucose monitor. We call the Dr’s for refills, deal with all the problems on the phone. Mind you we have one good pharmacist that pitches in and actually councils patients thoughoughly but most just say “take this on an empty stomach” or something similar.
We have some pharmacists that come in for relief actually sit and read the paper while we techs do all the work. We had one go play games on the computer until our company blocked the sites. So not all pharmacist are overworked. In our store we do an average of 300 scripts a day. 5 techs and one pharmacist with an overlap of a few hours. All the pharmacist does is check.
Overall I may be one of the few Certified Pharmacy Technicians that feel the Pharmacists are taking their job for granted and are not there to help the patient (unless the get paid) Why did they go to pharmacy school Not many count pills anymore or even know where to find them on the shelves. They stare at us waiting for something to check… Heck we have a pharmacist that refuses to answer the phone because that is not what they went to school for ! ! ! Imagine that
I would like to thank shoppers rexall for the truth about there greed it is not every day that a huge corparation will come out of the closet and show us there true agenda.They will be hurting the sick and our seniors not to mention there under paid workers.threten the people of ontario now the gloves are off.
There was a man named Tommy douglass who is the father of medicare,the doctors oppossed universal health care and they went on strike lasted 2 weeks they lost we won
Lets not let these thugs push us around we the people of ontario demand an apology.
Just one more thing, this happens to be our greatest opportunity to start talking about universal drug coverage.There should not be one person left behind in canada when it comes to drug coverage.
What ever they wanna do they can it’s there choice. It is our choice as consumers to decide if we want to fill our prescriptions there or not. I for one am not a supporter of them, nor walmart. I am all for the independents as they give the best service and you get that one on one. Shoppers I find i am a number and thats all. IDA see me as a customer and works for my business. I may pay $10.49 for a fill however I know I am getting the right information, and they have a record of my scripts so they know what will interac with what. You can’t ask for anything more. I’d rater pay that then deal with a operation like shoppers where all they care about is the mighty dollar.. Shame on them..
Boycott!
I understand why Shoppers is upset but however, I care more that my 78 year old grandmother is upset that she is going to have to pay even more money to get her meds! Is there no other way Shoppers can do this? Maybe cut the Seniors some slack since many of them like my grandma have next to no money. If she could use a computer she’d be on here telling you how much she does appreciate their free services. Like I said I understand Shoppers points but they are really hurting some people who NEED the extra help. I just don’t think it was a well thought out plan on their part. Maybe if we all write to shoppers we could ask them to cut our seniors some slack. I hear a lot of people on here talk about going to different pharmacies but for some people it isn’t a realistic move. I wouldn’t give up my pharmacist for the simple fact that he knows my entire family, health history and is close by… it takes years to build that kind of foundation. As for the dispensing fees I will admit shoppers are way too high but doesn’t everything come with a fee? My bank fees piss me off much more than my dispensing fees! What do the banks do for me? I do all my banking online… and I’m pretty sure banks aren’t hurting for money. Anyway, I just hate seeing people who need help suffer over something they have no control over. It’s really sad!
The Shoppers I work at deals a lot with blister packing for seniors homes. We send 2 techs to seniors homes for 8 hrs once a month to not only deliver their medication, but to councel each senior. All this comes at zero cost to the seniors home aside from the dispensing fees. Without the “ridiculously high” dispensing fee this service would not be offered for free and the 2 techs wouldn’t have a job that day.
I used to go to Costco for years before working for Shoppers. Sure the dispensing fees were lower, but the wait was usually just as long. Often times there was only 1 pharmacist and zero technicians on duty so anytime they councelled a patient, there was noone left doing the filling in the meantime.
Also, one other point I wanted to comment on was the wait time at Shoppers. I saw several posts about having to wait for an hour even though there was noone else in the store. We have a 24 hr prescription refill phone line to have your prescriptions filled if you choose that method. Everyone is in queue, and for a store like mine that does upwards of 500 scripts per day, theres a good chance that there is quite a few that have already phoned in that are ahead of you in line.
So those of you who work at shoppers or have worked at shoppers do you think that shoppers should at least cut the seniors a break? and people with special needs for that matter!
Cry me a river! Shoppers dispensing fees are too high. I transferred not only because of this but they cannot even get a refill order right and oh the customer service stinks. I think we pay too much money for meds-try paying for them when you don’t have a drug plan. I agree that shoppers needs to fight this with the govt and not the customer. I get better service elsewhere and pay less and don’t have to wait. As a consumer I can choose where to take my business.
Luckily I don’t need prescriptions at this time…but in the past have always had great service at SDM.
I really don’t like the Gov’t telling businesses what they can & can’t do or charge. This plus the HRT tax is gonna hurt an already hurting ON ( in our area Chatham-Kent)!
I feel for the people on fixed incomes if the costs go up & also for the staff if hours/staff get cut etc. Our SDM has a HUGE sign out front about the changes proposed & to call the local MPP!
I would be all for giving seniors a break but whats the point? If Shoppers doesnt do everything possible immediately against this legislation going thru, then there is a very, very good chance that every mom and pop pharmacy in Ontario will go bankrupt. Shoppers already has the monopoly in this field and you can bet that with fewer competition the fees will increase. Shoppers is literally everywhere, not everyone has access in the smaller communities to go to a Costco or Walmart. For instance, where I live there are a few of the “People’s Pharmacy” in neighbouring cities. What do you think will happen if places like People’s Pharmacy went out of business and Shoppers is the only place left in town to get your prescription filled. You can bet that Shoppers will lean on the other provinces outside of Ontario to weather the storm until there is no competition left. Small business’ in the Pharmacy field have managed to stay open based on decades worth of customer interaction. Im sure that many people go to the same Pharmacy now that their parents and grandparents went to because everyone knows them by name. Now if they all of a sudden close up shop because of this legislation it will be Shoppers who is left standing and at what cost to the consumer. Im pretty sure that the little guy is extremely happy that Shoppers is making this stand because there is no way in the world that the government would listen to them or care that they are going out of business based on just 1 voice from 1 store with no vast chain to back them up.
@BambinoItaliano – Canada is hardly a 3rd world in regards to the workforce, perhaps you should go down to the U.S. and compare the two. With madatory stat days, a minimum wage that just increased to $10/hr, social services out the wazoo and more regulations and guidelines in regards to minimum age to work to the basics in how you can be treated through your human resources department, I will take the Canadian workforce over 99% of the other workforces in the world! Does every workplace standup to Canadian standards, absolutely not, but you always have a choice to leave your job and find somewhere that will treat you as you wish to be treated!
I agree with heather, Shoppers and Rexall should realize the people they are hurting with this stance are the seniors mostly. I go to SDM for my family’s scripts because they provide free delivery and the blister packs for my fathers meds….I sort of considered the higher dispensing fee equal to these services that my father needed. However, if they decide to stop these services or charge my father (which he cannot afford on top of his meds) Then I will simply take our business elsewhere. I do not expect “free” services like the delivery/blister packs, however if I have to pay for them then I will go where the dispensing fee is lower such as WalMart or Costco and save him a few dollars even if I have to go pick them up.
I’m out. No more shopping at Shoppers for me. I’ll go somewhere else from now on.Bye Bye!!!!
At the end of the day, whether you decide to shop at shoppers or not, is your personal choice, but it is careless to generalize a bad personal experience at a store with all other stores in the chain. Regardless of whether a store is a Shoppers Drug Mart or an independent, bad service will always be a possibility. This though, should not be extended as a general view to the whole profession and their skills and abilities. Pharmacies don’t tell you all of the services they provide behind the scenes, because frankly the consumers don’t care. They just care about getting their meds – but if there were problems, and extra steps needed to be taken (i.e. contact the doctor, drug/drug interactions, allergies to meds, etc), pharmacies will go ahead and do these to ensure that what consumers are getting will not harm them. I think it’s false and unrealistic to rely completely on doctors and their judgments, how many of us have gone to a dr’s appt only to be pushed out as quickly as possible and with little regard to anything other than physical symptoms? As doctors are specialized in recognizing physical symptoms and illnesses, pharmacists are specialized in drugs – it would be false to assume either could do each other’s job; doctors’ true knowledge of drugs is only general (they rely on the pharmacists to get it right), and I would want the real expert to take their time in making sure what was prescribed is truly what I should be taking.
p.s. sally and jagkev, I was not attacking you guys in my earlier response – I just want people to realize that the media is not unbiased and that although I am certainly not speaking for the store where you had that bad experience (I have experienced the exact same thing @ a pharmacy in Metro), realize that only half the prescriptions a pharmacy must fill are from walk-ins: there are faxes and call-ins from doctors, phone requests, people who were in there earlier, etc. Just like in all other professions, what consumers see is never everything – we all work much harder than it seems on the surface.
p.p.s. I am not condoning Shoppers’ move at all (funny fact: Deb Matthews’ – the health minister – brother in law is on the Shoppers’ board – should make for an interesting family gathering); but realize it is not JUST Shoppers who are against this but all other pharmacies are too, they are just the company that generates the most press and has made the first public move (although Rexall has quickly followed suit) as will other chains in the coming weeks…the storm is just beginning…
@ maisce…you make the following statment
“They are retailers. They are not experts, that is a side business for them”
How can you claim that the people in the pharmacies in Costco or Walmart are not experts? I have never been to a Pharmacy that does not have a licenced person dispencing meds. Are these people @ costco or walmart are as qualified as any other.
And the side business, look at SDM. talk about a sideline business, selling soft drinks,( which really are not healthy for you) chocolate bars, and cosmetics, shouldn’t they be classed as side line to the main reason smd is open?
I have just sent my letters off to both mr. mcguinty and deb matthews.
@heather your grandmother isnt alone there are many seniors in the same boat, but the government is kind of twisting our arms here. If pharmacies dont start implementing these extra charges there is no way for them to survive. While I do think shoppers and rexall are starting way too early, they are making a point and it will lessen the blow to independent pharmacies when the changes go into effect on may 15th and they to have to start charging for things they never previously charged for.
IT’s NOT PHARMACIES HURTING PATIENTS, IT’S THE GOVERNMENT!! http://WWW.STOPCUTS.CA AND SEND A LETTER TO YOUR MPP. LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD!
Next to my Doctor, the pharmacist is the one I rely on most for my medications. Just this last week, I phoned and asked if I took something in addition to my medication would the combination kill me?. He answered
my question and told me exactly what I shouldn’t use together.
He is worth every penny of his dispensing fee and whatever other funds he receives.
One of my jobs is at Shoppers. I think it’s ridiculous that Shoppers is cutting hours, staff, and charging more for delivery anywhere before the government bill even passes. Do they think this will win people to their side by raking in more profits through cut backs at the expense of their staff before anything actual happens? If economists said inflation was going to rise 10% next year, would they give all their staff a 10 % raise right then? Not bloody likely – (probably their board of directors would vote themselves one though).
If Shoppers had any real competition, they would have gone under long ago. Their upper management should ask for and listen to suggestions by the people doing the actual work, their front line staff – many good people working hard and getting paid squat. We currently have a district manager who seems to have as his main job to point out holes where stock isn’t in the shelves. We have fleet service buying as their fleet of delivery trucks one of the lowest rated small trucks of all time (GMC Canyon and previous the Sonoma). Once when a delivery truck had worn out brakes and was going to be fixed at a local shop, the truck had to stay and extra day and a rental had to be bought because the brake pads in stock we the more expensive ones, and Shoppers only would pay for the cheapest ones. We have head honchos flying into town and staying at the most expensive hotels in town, so they can spend a few hours in town touring the newest Shoppers. I could give you endless examples. If Shoppers CEO Jurgen Schreiber wants to make cuts, he should look first at his and his cronies salaries and jobs. They seem mostly to be a bunch of stuffed suits with six figure (or more?) salaries and 2 digit I.Q.’s. – there is way to much fat at the top with many at the bottom doing the jobs of several people.
there’s my rant for the day.
I agree with Will 100%!!!!!
Oh cry me a river Shoppers Drug Mart. Like an article stated in the Globe and Mail this week, they picked a fight with the wrong person when they took on the health minister.
How about this. We are still living in the remaining shadows of the recession and a lot of people have been hurt. Jobs lost, homes lost and broken marriages etc. Now the reality is finally reaching the ones at the end of the line. But riddle me something you pharmaceutical flag wavers here. How many “for-profit” businesses out there get to dip into the pockets of the taxpayers in order to bolster the bottom line?
And what is this consultation crap… For years now when I pick up a prescription, I get a one page “info” sheet stapled to the bag with what appears to be what you would find in the pharmaceutical compendium. I get better and far more entertaining consultation when I go to the hair dressers.
The bottom line is that for years now, you have been getting government kickbacks as an incentive to dispense generic lines. Well guess what, the well just dried up and not soon enough. Learn how to run a business properly without sucking at the tit of the public purse. If you can’t do that, then step aside and let someone else do the job.
I found a great article and it’s really well written without any bias. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Blame%20game%20only%20hurts%20health%20care/2920548/story.html
Will, Jurgen Schreiber makes 8.8 million 🙂 hahaha he makes way more than six figures.
I’m fairly glad to see a lot of open minded folks here vs the more narrow minded posts I’ve been reading a lot lately. It really saddens me how little respect folks have for pharmacists and what they do too.
Janine, You pay dispensing fees too. I know Lawtons charges roughly $12. All pharmacies charge a dispensing fee all over Canada.
Charchar, It’s really a bit of a cop-out to flag opinions which do not fit into your viewpoint “narrow minded” and those that do; “open minded.” I personally do not see a lot of disrespect for pharmacists and what they do generally. What I see is frustration with the systemic nature of how things have gotten so skewed out of control.
As far as your posted article “well written without any bias.” Well, an opinion page has to be biased by it’s very definition. However, for some “facts” I offer this piece from the Star.
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/796614–olive-more-than-meets-the-eye-in-pharmacy-fight
Robert, your piece is just as biased as my piece if not worse in my opinion by making apples and oranges comparisions. These are not facts and to be honest, almost all articles I’ve read have been on the governments side. It’s as if these so call business reporters have not taken a course in basic economics. ‘sigh’ what can you do. It’s as if they are paid by the ON gov’t to write these very biased articles without actually trying to be neuteral. I’m not going to write what others have already written to defend why SDM is doing what it’s doing. We can all agree that this mess is all the result of the government’s doing and they are coping out of it by making it appear the pharmacies and pharmacists are the big bad guys. So how do you guys feel about the ON gov’t being a hypocrite? They themselves accept professional allowances too WITHOUT passing it onto the customers.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto/story.html?id=1867359
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ontarios-sweet-drug-deals-threatened-by-disclosure-of-rebate-terms/article1498059/
Oh come on. The first article was at least accurate for the most part, the second one was not well researched at all. It’s plugging in random stats to make it’s point. The ONLY people who know what is really going on are the ones actually involved in this process and it is really annoying to listen to people throw out opinions based on heresay.
Lori – “…the second one was not well researched at all.”
And what was not well researched? Which of those six facts were just randomly thrown in just to make a point? Maybe you should be writing to David Olive about his sloppy research!
When I look at the credentials of the two reporters here I would have to say that if not actually involved in the process, the reporter of the latter article is far better equipped to get at the facts.
Here is a thumbnail synopsis of the two reporters. What do you think?
Randall Denley has been examining local and provincial issues for the Citizen for 16 years, first as city editor, and for the last 11 years as city columnist. His focus is on how government spends your money.
David Olive, an award-winning author of 10 books, is a business and current affairs columnist at the Toronto Star who has covered three Democratic National Conventions, in New York, Chicago and Boston. A long-time U.S. political observer, Olive has written about the rise of Obama’s career for the Star. He is also a former editor-in-chief of Report on Business Magazine and a senior writer at the Financial Post, Globe and Mail and National Post.
Well we all know that a story is formed based on the information you choose to include and you choose to include the information that backs up your view. As a healthcare provider for many years, NOT a pharmacist, I see first hand what is involved. Do you? You can pick and choose which columnist to “believe” but unless said columnist is actually “living” this controversy then they don’t have the “whole” story, now do they?
I find it mildly amusing that people are complaining about paying a dispensing fee for their drugs but they don’t hesitate to buy an over priced meal from a high end restaurant.
You can’t leave the KEG without throwing down a hundred dollar bill for a meal for two and that’s only if you limit yourself to one drink a piece.
Do you really think that slab of beef and medium sized spud cost 60 dollars a piece? NO you’re paying for the service of the professional chef, the line chef, the waitress, the bus boy etc to deliver that perfectly cooked steak to you. THEN you tip the waitress on top of what you’ve already paid for in the cost of your meal.
The fee for those services are hidden in the cost of your meal. The pharmacy is no different except they show you what your dispensing fee is.
Charchar, I thank you for at least acknowledging that the pieces are both biased; but that is what an argument is all about is it not? I also agree that there is no neutrality in the media, every publication… or should I say conglomerate has its own agenda when it comes to reporting the news, but that’s why I thankful to be living in what I would loosely term a democracy. I also didn’t say that the government was blameless for this mess, and as far as out and out hypocrisy, one has only to look at the billions of dollars and lives being lost to tobacco use, yet the government rakes in billions in revenues on the same product.
This was published on November 11 2009 in the Financial Post on third-quarter earnings at SDM-
Shoppers posted a 6.6% increase in third quarter profit Wednesday on strong revenues, driven mostly by a 9.7% jump in prescription sales to $1.48-billion. In the past year, prescription sales have risen to 49.1% of total sales from 48.3%, in the midst of a strategy to aggressively market discounts and other retail offerings at the front of its stores. Front store sales rose 6.2% to $1.53-billion. Jurgen Schreiber, chief executive with Shoppers, is happy with the way things have worked out so far.
One of the facts alluded to so succinctly in the article I posted was the number of pharmacies operating within close proximity to each other. I don’t know where you are, but I live close to a small town in southwestern Ontario that has 3 pharmacies (one of them a SDM) and yet can only support two grocery, and one hardware store.
Finally, show me anywhere where the government is making it look like pharmacies and pharmacists are the big bad guys?
Lori – “Well we all know that a story is formed based on the information you choose to include and you choose to include the information that backs up your view.”
Like I said to Charchar, This is what as basically defined as an argument, I’m glad we all know that!
Lori – “As a healthcare provider for many years, NOT a pharmacist, I see first hand what is involved. Do you?”
I was a health care worker for 8 years many moons ago in London Ontario, but would not make the claim that I see “first hand” what is involved here. That would be as absurd as what Sara Palin did when she claimed that she new all about Russia simply because on a clear day she could see it across the Bering Straight!
Further to your “first hand” statement, you must find yourself in quite a state when trying to sift through things like the war in Afghanistan, the CRTC’s decision regarding throttling by Bell Canada or a myriad of other events outside the scope of your professional expertise.
So, you have the floor… As an insider Lori, what is really involved here that I don’t understand?
Coach Poppy. Do you not hesitate when you “drop $100 for a meal” at the KEG? You do this often? From your tone, it certainly sounds like you do this a lot without hesitation. In that case, a few extra dollars certainly doesn’t matter to you, since you’re super rich (or heavily in debt).
I suppose a few extra dollars is nothing to you, but some of us may feel the pinch.
Jeff,
Wow, you sure read into that post WRONG. I have only ever been to the Keg once and that was because my boss treated her employees to a Thank You dinner. I know what the prices are from the menu. I’ve never been back because I know a a million other things I could spend $100 on. So for you to dissect, from that post, that I dine there often and I’m either super rich or super poor is so far off base!
I’m amazed that you can tell the “tone” from words on a screen. You know nothing about me to be making those assumptions.
It’s people like you that read into a post and twist the words beyond recognition that make having a debate a complete waste of time.
Wisen up my friend and stay on topic here. What I spend my hard earned dollars on makes no difference here. I’m as thrifty as the next person.
After I lost my job I have been dealing with evil debt collectors. I almost fell for some of the debt consolidation and debt settlement scams, I came across http://howigotmyselfoutofdebt.org they dont sell anything. I learned alot how those companies operated and what I should do. Don’t fall into another trap.
I just want to say that I really like the pharmcist at the SDM that I go to. She’s always friendly and helpful and never makes me feel like I’m wasting her time. In fact, I rarely meet a bad or uncaring pharmacist. If that’s going to cost me $14 when I buy a prescription I happen to think it’s money well spent. You can be sure that the Dr. who wrote that script doesn’t give a c**p about me and neither does his nurse! And that goes for pretty much every doctor and nurse I’ve ever met. My being alive seems to annoy them.
genericpharmacia.com provide the customers with the drugs at the lowest possible costs because they do not have to spend too much on maintaining the physical shop and on hiring the person who will handle the shop. Very less maintenance and rental is required for the online drugs stores so additional savings are done here. Also, http://www.drugstoregenerics.com purchase the medicines directly from the drug manufacturer so they get the drugs at very less costs and the drug wholesaler doesn’t come in between. This helps the online pharmacies to keep the prices of the drugs at comparatively lower rates than the shopkeepers.
thank you very much for your view,it’s very helpful for me.
Each shoppers is individually owned, and the pharmacist/ owner (legally, the owner must be a registered pharmacist) makes the decition to charge delivery fee. “Boycotting” or slandering your local shoppers drug mart is attacking the individual owner, not the company as a whole.
In my city, there are 3 shoppers, two owners. One doesn’t charge delivery at her stores, the other does- unless they are seniors or physically incapable of leaving their house.
Although policies can change company-wide, as of right now most shoppers are still absorbing the costs of delivery- let’s remember that shoppers drug mart itself doesn’t have a fleet of mini-vans full of drugs. They generally have to pay a third-party company to do these deliveries.